Gaming Exec: Echelon On Hold 3-5 Years

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/21437917/detail.html

That is absolutely ludicrous.

Maybe I am crazy but I think they should just open a casino at the site for the time being. At least get some revenue off the site and Boyd presence back on the strip. I could ultimately be the satellite to the Echelon casino if that hotel ever gets built. I mean, the project as it was planned is never going to happen so they should have some extra room to play with.

Originally Posted by leo21

Maybe I am crazy but I think they should just open a casino at the site for the time being.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I thought taking down the Stardust when they did was a mistake. But, of course, I was laughed at for making such a suggestion. I'm sure they wish they still had the Stardust today.

Hindsight is 20-20. i guess there are millions of people who wished they hadn't bought a house in the years preceeding the housing crash. i guess there are millions of people who wish they would have got out of the stock market before the crash. I know the Stardust had a lot of fans, but with the continued growth of Vegas and all the luxury properties going up and giving free rooms the Stardust couldn't compete. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time.Now, not so good.

Originally Posted by BigBoyCaprice

Hindsight is 20-20. i guess there are millions of people who wished they hadn't bought a house in the years preceeding the housing crash. i guess there are millions of people who wish they would have got out of the stock market before the crash. I know the Stardust had a lot of fans, but with the continued growth of Vegas and all the luxury properties going up and giving free rooms the Stardust couldn't compete. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time.Now, not so good.

That's less than fair. By the time they brought the Boardwalk down in 2006, almost a year before the Stardust came down, I was fully convinced that the economy was damaged beyond the point of no return. In fact I was so convinced that I put my money where my mouth was, by buying a 2 acre parcel near Elko, NV for cash and building a 2 story cabin on it out of pocket money. My logic was 1) being rent & mortgage free was the best way to weather a depression, and 2) the economy in Elko is based on commercial gold mining, so Elko will most likely prosper during a depression (and it has). In other words, I was in Elko building my depression shelter as the Stardust was being brought down. That's hardly 20-20 hindsight.

The days of the "no one could have known" excuse are over, along with the Bush administration. Ignorance and incompetence should never be justification for anything, except termination of course. Your logic that since so many people were wrong that it must make them correct is sooooo 2 years ago. It's time to start calling it correctly and to be results oriented.

By the way, I'm in Las Vegas right now to buy property. I'm not finding the prices I want so I might need to wait for a few more months, but now is the time to hunt for bargains. The banks don't seem like they're hurting enough yet, but they will.

Originally Posted by ajonate

It's time to start calling it correctly and to be results oriented.

I completely agree with you. I believe that we are in the early stages of a major Bull Market cycle.

Originally Posted by ajonate

That's less than fair. By the time they brought the Boardwalk down in 2006, almost a year before the Stardust came down, I was fully convinced that the economy was damaged beyond the point of no return. In fact I was so convinced that I put my money where my mouth was, by buying a 2 acre parcel near Elko, NV for cash and building a 2 story cabin on it out of pocket money. My logic was 1) being rent & mortgage free was the best way to weather a depression, and 2) the economy in Elko is based on commercial gold mining, so Elko will most likely prosper during a depression (and it has). In other words, I was in Elko building my depression shelter as the Stardust was being brought down. That's hardly 20-20 hindsight.

The days of the "no one could have known" excuse are over, along with the Bush administration. Ignorance and incompetence should never be justification for anything, except termination of course. Your logic that since so many people were wrong that it must make them correct is sooooo 2 years ago. It's time to start calling it correctly and to be results oriented.

By the way, I'm in Las Vegas right now to buy property. I'm not finding the prices I want so I might need to wait for a few more months, but now is the time to hunt for bargains. The banks don't seem like they're hurting enough yet, but they will.

I'm just saying that a lot of "smart" people have lost a lot of money. The people that started that project along with others like City Center are not morons. They didn't get to where they are because they are ignorant and incompetent. I'm glad you saw it coming and made some right moves. Let me know when your going to pull the trigger on your Vegas area purchase.

I always had questions about City Center. It seemed like MGM was forcing things onto the strip that didn't belong. I did like the idea of them extending the strip with the use of space but condos and hotels with no casinos didn't seem smart. The plan for Echelon seemed smarter and a little more realistic but none of it made sense when you added Cosmopolitan and Fountainbleu to the mix with Palazzo and Encore coming first. Yes there was a lot of money out there being spent freely but it was insane to think that globally there were that many people flush enough to spend at that level who would choose to do it in Vegas. I knew that the housing market was doomed for a long time - I just had no idea that the impact would be this bad. I did know that it would be bad enough for anyone making long term plans to expect a lot of belt tightening. It's scary to think that only one guy in the casino business saw it that way, too.

Originally Posted by Vegasguy

I completely agree with you. I believe that we are in the early stages of a major Bull Market cycle.

Could be. There was a huge disconnect between Main Street & Wall Street during the Great Depression, so the same thing could be happening today. The problem I have with the market right now is that government involvement in bailing-out corporations removes any pretense of the market being manipulated, since there's no question that it is. You can't really make educated guesses about where the market indicators might be taking us when the government can pull the rug out from under your assumptions with a bailout at any time.

That said, I'm curious about what indicators you are relying upon that have led you to the conclusion that we are headed into a bull market. Care to elaborate?

Originally Posted by BigBoyCaprice

I'm just saying that a lot of "smart" people have lost a lot of money. The people that started that project along with others like City Center are not morons. They didn't get to where they are because they are ignorant and incompetent.

You make the assumption that those people are smart because of their positions. That used to be valid, but it doesn't seem that way any more. Look at the idiots who lost hundreds of billions at AIG; those people took a pass on accountability and are still there -- managing YOUR money now. Good luck.

There has been a culture of incompetence that was fostered by the past administration, where the "decider" being wrong wasn't a big deal, and certainly didn't come with any accountability. That culture has spread from the White House to corporate America. Heck, you're giving those idiots a pass right now, simply in the basis that they must be "smart" because of their corporate positions.

Originally Posted by BigBoyCaprice

Let me know when your going to pull the trigger on your Vegas area purchase.

I don't know. The mortgage companies don't seem hungry enough yet. They're asking more for their repos at auction than the housing market can bear. They evidently don't understand the purpose of the trustee auction and how it can help them. They need to get smart fast, or find themselves in another mess very soon.

I'm staying in Las Vegas for another week to see if conditions improve. Maybe I'll find something and maybe I won't, but I refuse to be intimidated by those jerks.

Originally Posted by ajonate

I'm sure they wish they still had the Stardust today.

Do you think the Stardust would be making any money in this economy? I'll save you the trouble -- no, on the contrary, it would be bleeding red ink. I mean, look at the Riviera.

Originally Posted by gordie

Do you think the Stardust would be making any money in this economy? I'll save you the trouble -- no, on the contrary, it would be bleeding red ink. I mean, look at the Riviera.

Part of the problem is the Riv is that the Stardust and alot the other hotels at that part of the strip are gone. It makes staying in that part of the strip impractical because there are just big holes in the ground and there is not enough to do North strip. When you have to compare staying at the Riv or spending the same money at Downtown, Downtown makes more sense. I am not saying that the Stardust would be doing good business now but if it, Westward Ho and New Frontier were all together, I think they would have had a better shot at it than one or two places on their own because it would be a better package to present against staying downtown.

Where did the 'Dust's old customers go anyway? The Riv got the database but it doesn't seem like they retained those customers. I only went to the Stardust once but I never heard anything from the Riv, but that is understandable. I wonder if they worked the database.

Either way you look at it, there is more demand for places like Wynn, Encore, Pallazzo, Venetian and Belagio.

I am sure that The Stardust had it's glory days, but at the end it was time to turn off the lights.

Originally Posted by Vegasguy

Either way you look at it, there is more demand for places like Wynn, Encore, Pallazzo, Venetian and Belagio.

I am sure that The Stardust had it's glory days, but at the end it was time to turn off the lights.

Sure, there's more demand for the higher end joints - Have you seen how cheap their room rates are? Folks will change their tune on those places if their rates go up. Sure, I like staying in the most lavish hotel that fits my budget but the reality is that I don't need more than what a place like Harrah's offers to be happy in Vegas. If Stardust was all I could afford, I would have been in good shape staying there.

Originally Posted by leo21

If Stardust was all I could afford, I would have been in good shape staying there.

To me, the point isn't what I can afford, the point is going home a winner. It's a lot more difficult to go home a winner when you have a large hotel & restaurant budget to overcome. Why turn $400/day over to the hotel cashier when $50 will do? Use the $350 difference at the tables.

Originally Posted by leo21

Where did the 'Dust's old customers go anyway? The Riv got the database but it doesn't seem like they retained those customers. I only went to the Stardust once but I never heard anything from the Riv, but that is understandable. I wonder if they worked the database.

When the Stardust closed, I was informed by Boyd that they were moving my "home" casino to the Orleans. I did see an increase in offerings from the Orleans. I have never received any offers or information of any kind from the Riv.

Originally Posted by ajonate

To me, the point isn't what I can afford, the point is going home a winner. It's a lot more difficult to go home a winner when you have a large hotel & restaurant budget to overcome. Why turn $400/day over to the hotel cashier when $50 will do? Use the $350 difference at the tables.

couldnt have said that better ajonate.

Higher hotel fees = smaller gambling wins.
smaller gambling wins = less gamblers
less gamblers = less hotel revenue
less hotel revenue = financial disaster for Vegas

High hotel overhead isnt conducive to personal gambling wins. The corporate suits know this and have ruined the gambling industry there to compensate.

If they'd only waited a year or two the Stardust might still be standing and raking in profits. And I'd still be getting the better comps (maybe) that I used to receive. Oh well, at least I got to stay there several times and enjoy the old school experience.

Originally Posted by Sailor53

If they'd only waited a year or two the Stardust might still be standing and raking in profits.

Again, what kind of profits?!? They were barely making money when they shut it down. It would be much worse now.