Some strange table-game happenings

I've been to LV over 50 times and played hundreds of hours at the tables. But I had a couple of weird things happen when I was there last week I've never seen before.

First the good.
Was playing BJ in the hi limit area of GN last Wed late at night. The guy at 3rd base was slow and a very poor player ( took a long time "devining" what to do and kept not turning his DD hands or BJs over - put them face down in front and the dealer kept having to correct him ).

So on one hand the whole table has "pat hands" and the 3rd baseman is distracted so the dealer turns over a 6 under her up 5. Then deals herself a K for 21 to KILL THE TABLE. But then the 3rd baseman says "why didn't you give me a DD card?" to the dealer - showing her his 6-4 that he had put slightly in front of his chips ( didn't tuck but also "forgot" to put double his $ out ). So the dealer calls over the pitstiff and tells him she didn't realize he wanted to DD and he obviously did. So at first the pitstiff asks the guy if he wants to DD NOW and get the next card in the deck. Since only an ACE would push he says NO.

Remarkably the pitstiff tells the dealer to just burn the whole hand and not take anyone's money, we all would have lost under most any scenario as the next card ended up being a Q. I was shocked as I had $50 bet but everyone else had at least $200 bet and he was essentially giving us all a free play worth hundreds all-together. Now I think it was the Customer Service way to handle it but have NEVER had a pitstiff be so generous. Usually they do whatever they have to do to screw the players in such a mix-up.

Now the bad.
While it didn't really "cost" anyone any $, I was apalled when a stick person called "FOUR, easy four" when the dice had so obviously landed hard six ( two 3s ) right in front of me. I have no idea WHY she'd call the wrong number but the dealer on our side corrected her ( saying it was a hard six in a low tone to her ) as I was more vociferously stating she had mis-called and it was a SIX! She adamently says it was a FOUR and that one die was against a stack of chips ( a total lie ) and she'd read it right as a 4. IMO, the dealer decided not to overrule her and just completely dummied up at that point as she was being so obstinant in her "lie" and story that he decided it was no good to argue with her or dispute it.

But I was a bit miffed that she'd continue down this ridiculous sham of claiming it was a 4. I asked the box to review the tape or overrule and he again asked the stick what had happened and she lied saying the one die had been angled against a stack of chips with 1 up so it was a 4. It was on the come-out and didn't cost me anything - as both six and 4 were repeated before a 7-out came but it just mystified me that a dealer would blow the call and then obstinantly lie to cover it up upon challenge. There were only two players at our end of the table and the other guy didn't seem to care - but it was very strange to me! The dealer KNEW she'd blown it but in sticking by each other he decided to just let her go and not challenge her - their "cover for each other" pact/code coming thru I guess. No one was on the 4 or 6 on this come-out so it didn't hurt anyone but was just bizarre!

The last strange happening was just kind of odd.
Most dealers will only give advice if requested - as they don't want any more blame/whining than they have to endure. But I had a "obviously a bit new" craps dealer tell me to "set the dice" with hard 10 and roll slow and with the same rythm each time. She claimed that when she does that she at least makes 8-10 rolls between 7-outs and can make some $. This was at an empty table with only me at it shooting and when I got up a hundred bucks I toke betted for the dealers.

I guess she wanted to win her bets and was trying to give me what she thought was good advice - claiming she won that way when she played. The stickman, who was one of the best craps dealers I've seen, got a bit annoyed at her for telling me I shouldn't just grab the dice as they are returned and lobbing them ( my usual technique ). She's buying into the "dice control" BS and he's telling her to STFU as I am doing fine and don't need her advice etc. i did ask why she was dealing when she has the "secret" to winning and should just turn pro - he LHAO and she finally shut up with the advice.

I must say I've never had someone try to tell me how to throw etc. before. I've seen BJ dealers get so frustrated watching bad players throwing their $ away that they've given unsolicited advice ( tho GOOD and SOUND ) but to offer "superstitious nonsense" advice was a new one on me.

GLTA

Originally Posted by parlayboy

I've been to LV over 50 times and played hundreds of hours at the tables. But I had a couple of weird things happen when I was there last week I've never seen before.

This may explain some of the problems.
I have a cousin a PitStiff at the NYNY told me many of the dealers shifts were cut back at most MGM properties. Many of the dealers were forced to pick up second jobs typically low pay and graveyard shift to make up the for the short falls.
He also mentioned tips are down on average 45% from the same time last year.

He mentioned the number of mistakes made by a extreme tired cards dealers working several jobs is a growing problem at most strip casinos. He talked of a shift in July one card dealer fall a sleep at the shoe another passed out due to fatigue.
He had numerous examples of mistakes made by exhausted staff working many jobs trying to keep up.

Originally Posted by coldnorth

This may explain some of the problems.
I have a cousin a PitStiff at the NYNY told me many of the dealers shifts were cut back at most MGM properties. Many of the dealers were forced to pick up second jobs typically low pay and graveyard shift to make up the for the short falls.
He also mentioned tips are down on average 45% from the same time last year.

He mentioned the number of mistakes made by a extreme tired cards dealers working several jobs is a growing problem at most strip casinos. He talked of a shift in July one card dealer fall a sleep at the shoe another passed out due to fatigue.
He had numerous examples of mistakes made by exhausted staff working many jobs trying to keep up.

Makes some sense coldnorth! I will add though that I saw less dealer mistakes at BJ this trip than I'm used to seeing. Now that probably has as much to do with me playing at quarter tables predominantly instead of nickel or dime as usual - I used to play graveyard $1-$5 downtown tables almost exclusively and encountered a fair % of break-ins as a result. That tends to lead to seeing at least one mistake an hour for most - particularly when I get chatting to them and they lose concentration.

I saw only maybe half a dozen BJ mistakes by dealers this trip in all. The worst was a dealer that drew to 21 but evidently thought she'd busted and paid everyone - no one blinked so she didn't catch it. Another didn't notice that one player had a black hidden under his stack of green in the circle and he lost and she paid the guy next to him out of her "collection rake" in her hand and gave him the black chip instead of all green - as he'd bet. The guy pocketed the black ( as quietly as he could w/o letting on - so he got a $75 bonus out of it ).

Originally Posted by parlayboy

Now the bad.
While it didn't really "cost" anyone any $, I was apalled when a stick person called "FOUR, easy four" when the dice had so obviously landed hard six ( two 3s ) right in front of me. I have no idea WHY she'd call the wrong number but the dealer on our side corrected her ( saying it was a hard six in a low tone to her ) as I was more vociferously stating she had mis-called and it was a SIX! She adamently says it was a FOUR and that one die was against a stack of chips ( a total lie ) and she'd read it right as a 4. IMO, the dealer decided not to overrule her and just completely dummied up at that point as she was being so obstinant in her "lie" and story that he decided it was no good to argue with her or dispute it.

But I was a bit miffed that she'd continue down this ridiculous sham of claiming it was a 4. I asked the box to review the tape or overrule and he again asked the stick what had happened and she lied saying the one die had been angled against a stack of chips with 1 up so it was a 4. It was on the come-out and didn't cost me anything - as both six and 4 were repeated before a 7-out came but it just mystified me that a dealer would blow the call and then obstinantly lie to cover it up upon challenge. There were only two players at our end of the table and the other guy didn't seem to care - but it was very strange to me! The dealer KNEW she'd blown it but in sticking by each other he decided to just let her go and not challenge her - their "cover for each other" pact/code coming thru I guess. No one was on the 4 or 6 on this come-out so it didn't hurt anyone but was just bizarre!GLTA

I had a similar experience at CR, only this one cost the whole table. A ten was rolled (6-4), and the stick called it a seven-out. It landed directly in front of me and there was no mistake what it was. Only myself and the people standing on my side of the table saw it and we complained loudly. Niether the pit boss or the other dealers cared one bit, but the amazing thing was that all of the other players at a fairly crowed table just stood there as well. The money was quickly raked off the table with the stick man proclaiming, "I call 'em like I see 'em". Kowing the temprament of the delaers and pit staff at CR, I thought it best to just walk away, but to this day, I still shake my head when I think about it.

That really suks tobydog! I'd have been insensed. I've had sloppy dealers muck my wrong bets on a 7-out when I used to switch back and forth between right and wrong betting. I didn't know who to challenge back then. That is the primary reason I almost NEVER forfeit dealer mistake bonuses to this day. If they are too lazy and inconsiderate to right their wrongs, as in mucking my winning bets or in your case blatantly cheating a whole table ( probably due to boredom or bitterness over not being toked as much as they want ) then I'm not giving them any breaks on their mistakes that go in my favor either.

If that happened to me with any decent $ on the table I'd have screamed bloody murder and made them check the tape or threatened to call the gaming commission. I saw a guy who got screwed threaten to call them once and it really did work as they fixed up the problem very quickly for him after that. I do think they fear trouble from them and particularly when they have truly wronged someone.

JMHO

Originally Posted by Tobydog

I had a similar experience at CR, only this one cost the whole table. A ten was rolled (6-4), and the stick called it a seven-out. It landed directly in front of me and there was no mistake what it was. Only myself and the people standing on my side of the table saw it and we complained loudly. Niether the pit boss or the other dealers cared one bit, but the amazing thing was that all of the other players at a fairly crowed table just stood there as well. The money was quickly raked off the table with the stick man proclaiming, "I call 'em like I see 'em". Kowing the temprament of the delaers and pit staff at CR, I thought it best to just walk away, but to this day, I still shake my head when I think about it.

Originally Posted by parlayboy

That really suks tobydog! I'd have been insensed. I've had sloppy dealers muck my wrong bets on a 7-out when I used to switch back and forth between right and wrong betting. I didn't know who to challenge back then. That is the primary reason I almost NEVER forfeit dealer mistake bonuses to this day. If they are too lazy and inconsiderate to right their wrongs, as in mucking my winning bets or in your case blatantly cheating a whole table ( probably due to boredom or bitterness over not being toked as much as they want ) then I'm not giving them any breaks on their mistakes that go in my favor either.

If that happened to me with any decent $ on the table I'd have screamed bloody murder and made them check the tape or threatened to call the gaming commission. I saw a guy who got screwed threaten to call them once and it really did work as they fixed up the problem very quickly for him after that. I do think they fear trouble from them and particularly when they have truly wronged someone.

JMHO

My PitStiff cousin once told me in case of a dispute, you have the right to ask to have the hand or play reviewed. If the house refuses he suggested you call the Nevada Gaming Commission right at the table, this will get the attention of management quickly